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Peeterr



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re: BG - Raid.

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We dont have a thread about that one ? Well now we do.

I was thinking about Durchest fight and how could we get it done without problems.

I think that Both cappys should trait innocence for Melee defence. This should make them a bit stronger when Cleave hits. Is it doable Cappys ?

And someone should write down the LT EM tactics and Twins tactics so that everybody can ask theyr questions prior the Raid and we dont have to waste much raid time explaining all from zero.
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Great idea Rauna! I just went ahead and moved the topic to the Instance Info forum since it better fits under that category.


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re: LM in BG

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Some quotes from LM thread:
Going to BG for the first time. What should I know?

Quote:
Your ICPR will be at 10% of your normal value for the duration of the fight.

The caveat is that every time you hit the fell beast you get a small amount of power back. For this reason most toons bring throwing daggers with them so they can throw them at the beast when he's in range (and this skill costs no power).

Most of the damage that the tank will take is common damage, however the rest of the group will be taking a significant shadow dot when the red corruption phase is up.

The Lt. and his steed have a buff that prevents you from drawing power. I would suggest reducing your own power consumption and increasing power that you give others via LI stats (+healing) and relics.

There are no trash mobs that are mezzable up to the LT. I tend to keep the raven as there are armoureds with shadow damage and the LT does shadow as well and the eagle's icpr buff isn't really too helpful... +6 power every minute.

What IS useful is Knowledge of the Past which returns power when you hit mobs. I'll usually switch that in so that I'm running that and Healer for my two non yellows.

Watching your power is a key aspect of the LT fight for every class. The first time people go in there, they tend to overuse power, since the dynamics are different from almost every other fight in the game. You have to be significantly more choosy with which skills you use. For example, it's not usually practical (or necessary) to try to keep the full range of LM debuffs up in that fight (unlike in every other boss fight in the game).

You can use the power return from flanked staff sweep 2-3 times every minute. Combine that with throwing daggers at the beast every 10s the whole fight and using power pots every time they're off cooldown, and you end up with a very, very solid power pool and power sharing capability.

My best piece of advice in that fight is to trait Beacon of Hope and always be ready to use it... LM heal is a great emergency heal.

So, along with not being able to power drain certain mobs or stun immune against certain stunning mobs, every major wound in BG is uncurable, making Proof Against All Ills totally unnecessary.
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re: BG - Raid.

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http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?324659-BG-Factual-information.

Please read the LT fight part there!!!


Everybody HAS TO HAVE A MIC! And have to be able to talk in LT fight. EVERYBODY has to indentify eyes and know what to do with them! One eye will wipe the whole raid!
Peeterr



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re: BG - Raid.

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Well Me haveing too much free time at work(read i just dont feel like doing some work) results below ;)


At first i think we have all the trash bulls under a control. Before Durchest after durcest and even after twins! So i dont write anything about that.

Durchest:

I found this:

Quote:
A few first hand facts on the tank assist method for Durchest:

1) Cleave (his distributed damage frontal attack) applies the perceived threat debuff.
2) Cleave will hit a maximum of 3 targets (usually only hitting 2, even if a third is in range and a possible target).
3) The maximum sustainable perceived threat that Durchest can give out is 210% (I've seen it spike to 230% once, but someone with -100% lost their debuff soon after, getting aggro, then killing the raid).
4) Durchest tends to hit people with cleave who already have a perceived threat debuff (if there are 3-4 targets, he'll upgrade/refresh peoples debuffs instead of applying debuffs to new people, and letting the first debuffs expire).


That seems to be true even if we look back to our runs. Thats why one of our cappys dont get the debuff sometimes and sometimes only the cappys will get the debuff.

So we can try sending in 2 cappys when they both have debuffs for lets say -30% guard goes in and we should be fine that leaves other guard free to take the adds. If not we can still use tank switchig method!

Do make things a bit easyer ppl who stand infrong of durchest should stack as much Melee defence they can.

Guards should have it maxed. Its reduces melee damage by 15%.
Cappys should just get is as high as possible without giving up any other stats too much( scroll for theyr emblem and Innocence )

Burg and LM keep debuffs on him all the time.

Disable: -20% Melee damage +20% attack duration
Fire Lore: -30% Melee offence
Sign of power:command +20% attack duration

One more thing we have to do is corruption removal calling. Some one has to call out who removes and when. When we have 2 LMs +RK that should´t be a problem for us rly.

Well about Durchest Coruptions:
Quote:
Quote:

If you put other people in front of Durchest to distribute cleave you will reduce the chances of a 2-shot kill. Keeping Disable and LM debuffs all the time are critical once his damage buffs start ranking up. His corruptions are only +tactical damage (2 fire and one lightning attacks after armors die) and -incoming damage so they dont affect a tank being 2 shotted (unless one of the shots is from the fire or lighting attacks).

Thanks for doing my job for me! I thought I was going to have to explain in YET ANOTHER THREAD that the corruptions on Durchest don't affect his outgoing damage other than 3 attacks all fight!


So hes Melee dps isnt affected by coruptions! Why we have some problems after all adds are down:

Quote:
And yes, his melee dmg ramps up over the course of the fight, I believe it maxes out at 175%. And obviously with dread you will get hit harder, that's why having a tank with low radiance can be sketchy because you will take more damage.


But easy mode is all we can do atm. Why ? Coz in HM after all 10 adds are down we have 250 gloom. So 120 radiance most of us are running isnt enogh. After an update mby ;)

Twins:

I found this:

Quote:
To go into a bit more detail (read: strat) on HM twins...

Again, this is the strat we use, I know this has been done different ways, but this is what I have found to be successful, so hopefully it can help some groups that are having a harder time in this fight.

Group makeup (for hard mode):
2-3 solid ranged dps (hunters + dps rks)
1-2 other ranged dps (lms)
4-5 healers (2 minis, 1-2 cappies, 1 healing rk)
3-4 melee (champs, burgs, guards, wardens)

Now that list is including all classes so no one feels left out... but, unfortunately for tanks, using the OP's strat, makes guards and wardens unnecessary. Now, you most definitely CAN bring a guard or a warden - have them trait OP, or whatever a warden's equivalent is of a dps build. One is no problem, if you bring 2, you may be setting yourself up for slow dps and, thus, a harder, longer fight. I would say that a champ is highly recommended for agro management on Morgaraf. Another thing that I find very helpful is having a healing rk to heal the hunter that is tanking Cargaraf. You should tell the rk to heal the tanking hunter and only the hunter, if the hunter dies it should be the rk's problem.

The way you arrange the groups can also be important for this fight. I usually split them up into Fire group and shadow group. That means fire group consists of: 3-4 melee (burgs, champs, guards, wardens, captain #2 - if you have a 2nd one) + 2 healers (if you have 2 minis, I put them together in this group). Shadow group consists of: 2-3 ranged dps (including the tanking hunter), healing rk, lms, captain #1. Why put both minis together? The fire group is the one taking the most damage. No one else in the shadow group, but the tanking hunter should be taking damage really so big group heals are not necessary. Also, if things get hairy near the end of the fight, 2 fellows hearts back to back for the melee group is very helpful. I leave captain (although he won't be hitting the Cargaraf) in the shadow group so that he can put down banner for the tanking hunter.

At the beginning of the fight we usually have all oathies being popped on Cargaraf. We do not try and burn them down so that they stay within 5-10k of each other, I've read about this in other threads, but it seems it is unclear as to whether this works or not as far as controlling dread. Doing the fight as fast as possible seems to be more imperative to success. So, if Cargaraf gets to 100k, and Morgaraf is way behind, I just leave the tanking hunter hitting Cargaraf and have the other ranged dps turn around and hit the fire guy until it's caught up. Basically, you can move your ranged dps between twins in order to bring the twins to same health near the end of the fight, before you burn them both.

Finally, a bit more detail on managing Morgaraf agro which seems to be a topic of great discussion. Again this is what I have found to be most successful. I play a champ in this fight for our main run, so my perception of how necessary champs are may be a bit skewed, but I highly recommend at least one in this fight. Champs - this is where having a rune with ebbing ire CD and rising ire CD is great. Basically you will start the fight, champ can get agro of Morgaraf. If you have agro you will see the main damage dot increasing on your bar. Basically, it starts at around 400 and goes up from there. Once your dot hits 800-900, you need to ebbing ire to one of the other melee classes that are on Morgaraf (this can be another champ, burg, guard, warden, captain). After you have ebbed you need to leave Morgaraf's fire aura and wait till both the debuff and your agro dot have reset (usually about 30 seconds). During the time that you are standing around, pretending to do epic dps with Let fly, the person that you ebbed too should have agro of Morgaraf. Once you are clear of all debuffs you can run right in there, rising ire off whoever has agro (note: it may take more than 1 rising ire depending on how epic the dps is, this is when 10 sec CD is nice). If burg has agro and you just can't get it off then have them HIPS. If you have wardens or tanks in here make sure they trait for dps and are not using threat over time skills - as it makes it more difficult to get agro off them. Now you have agro again, and the person that just had agro should run out of Morgaraf's aura and let their debuffs cool off. Rinse and repeat.

We do not use the yellow eye strat where you let your dot get so high that you get hit with the knockback and extra dmg, simply because it requires more heals and if you are in the fire aura for that long, power costs will be so high that one could argue the dps would no longer be cost effective and you may have a very grumpy LM on your hands... but again, different strats work for different groups. This is just one of a few that can work.


Fire dude hits with tactical damage so armor value and shield dont help at all in this fight. We have some problems with healing so bringing in a healing RK would make things much easyer.

I would say that we are in good position. As both our tanks have a RK rdy for BG.

So what i suggsest for this fight is:

One guard switches to healing traited RK and heals only hunter tank who tanks Shadow chick. What that gives us is a extra corution removal on shadow and minis dont have to worry about hunter whos tanking. That leaves more room for errors and when one of the healers have an eye we have 2 others who can take care of things.

Remaining guard who should be in OP for maximum dps and a champ can tank fire dude without problem. And even Burg can step in if needed.

Once again to make healers life easyer champ should trait tactical defence. (scroll on theyr stone and Tolerance) once again Guards should have it maxed anyways.

Burgs use: Counter Defence instead of Disable.

Tanking Shadow!
Quote:
Do not try to kite Carg, it's ridiculously risky and annoying. As long as she's tanked at range from the start all she'll ever do is Shadow Bolt (tactical) over & over on the tank, and put fears and purple eyeballs on other raid members.


So we have to find the spot hunter can stay so he dosent have to move the whole fight.

We should still get the Fire Dude down first and then take down shadow. The thing is that when the Fire is down Shadow wount use her AOE oneshotter anymore so melee can go in and dps him down fast! For that part an extra RK can even switch to DPS coz 2 minnis should be able to keep everybodey up at this point.

I think that should able us to get the 2 first bosses in farm for easymode.

Once more for HM. We dont have enogh Radiance.(in this fight more time we do this fight the more gloom there will be). And our Blue Eye managment is rly bad. Yeah thats true we have to manage the eyes perfectly in EM to be able to do the HM.

To be countinued with LT information i can find! So everybodey who reads this and is willing to do something to get this run smoother is free to upgreade theyr virtues and raid setup ;) And ofc argue and throw in your thoughts!

NB! Sry about my grammar like u know im crazy Russian who has to Drink some Vodka and shoot is AK-47 and have no time to learn some more english ;)
-Dazy-
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re: BG - Raid.

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Bwahaha! Your engrish be pwetty gud, brosky. Pretty safe to say your english is 1000% better than our Russian.

Excellent write up. Thanks for the effort. I have been wondering when we were going to try HM on Durchest. I think with a little fine-tuning we'll be ready. With this new information about the Twins, we shouldn't be too far away from HM there as well.

I really don't see how we'll down LT until we've got HM done on Dur and the Twins since it appears the only way to get the additional pieces is on HM for all bosses. But to get into Phase II on our first few attempts is pretty impressive and I'm very happy with how well we're progressing as a group.

It will be nice to be finished with DN so we can focus on BG. Not saying we never do it again but wait until we have a new raiders ready to go before going in and getting them geared up. In the meantime, for singles we can do Annu/Heli runs if I understand correctly that they also give rad gear.


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re: BG - Raid.

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Good information Rauna. I do have a couple points though:

I like the information regarding Durchest and I think we found having the cappies with the melee defence really helped.

Peeterr wrote:
One more thing we have to do is corruption removal calling. Some one has to call out who removes and when. When we have 2 LMs +RK that should´t be a problem for us rly.


My thoughts on this are to have a dedicated person calling out who should be doing the corruptions. We know we have to do it on the LT so doing it here would only be good practice for the group and would help clear up a lot of corruption confusion. The person who's doing this needs to be someone who is completely focused on the boss. So best choice in my opinion is the guard (because the cappies may be healing, and the RKs/LMs will probably be bouncing back and forth on adds)...but if anyone else has another idea, I'm willing to listen.

Peeterr wrote:
So hes Melee dps isnt affected by coruptions!


Useful to know!

Peeterr wrote:
But easy mode is all we can do atm. Why ? Coz in HM after all 10 adds are down we have 250 gloom. So 120 radiance most of us are running isnt enogh. After an update mby ;)


I'm not so sure about this. I've read about doing HM with only 120 radiance. Yes, it will be more difficult, but it is possible. A few of us discussed this the other day and want to at least spend some time getting use to HM. So I think our current plan is to try HM once (maybe twice) per run. If we don't get it on the first or second try, we'll go do easy mode and then proceed on to the twins. But if we give it a try every week we'll get some experience in how it will work (since we've been getting easy mode on our first try, we want to spend some time working on HM to get a feel for how it will be)

Peeterr wrote:
Fire dude hits with tactical damage so armor value and shield dont help at all in this fight. We have some problems with healing so bringing in a healing RK would make things much easyer.

I would say that we are in good position. As both our tanks have a RK rdy for BG.

So what i suggsest for this fight is:

One guard switches to healing traited RK and heals only hunter tank who tanks Shadow chick. What that gives us is a extra corution removal on shadow and minis dont have to worry about hunter whos tanking. That leaves more room for errors and when one of the healers have an eye we have 2 others who can take care of things.

Remaining guard who should be in OP for maximum dps and a champ can tank fire dude without problem. And even Burg can step in if needed.

Once again to make healers life easyer champ should trait tactical defence. (scroll on theyr stone and Tolerance) once again Guards should have it maxed anyways.

Burgs use: Counter Defence instead of Disable.


Excellent info on the twins. I think the suggestions here are a good idea.

Peeterr wrote:
So we have to find the spot hunter can stay so he dosent have to move the whole fight.


The link that was posted up further in the thread has some pictures and shows where the hunter can stand I think so that the Shadow boss will never move.

Peeterr wrote:
NB! Sry about my grammar like u know im crazy Russian who has to Drink some Vodka and shoot is AK-47 and have no time to learn some more english ;)


Crazy Russians....:P


All in all, I think there were some excellent strats in there. We just need to make sure people read them before we go in there.


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Quote:
I'm not so sure about this. I've read about doing HM with only 120 radiance. Yes, it will be more difficult, but it is possible. A few of us discussed this the other day and want to at least spend some time getting use to HM. So I think our current plan is to try HM once (maybe twice) per run. If we don't get it on the first or second try, we'll go do easy mode and then proceed on to the twins. But if we give it a try every week we'll get some experience in how it will work (since we've been getting easy mode on our first try, we want to spend some time working on HM to get a feel for how it will be)


Possible !? OFC i dont argue everyting is possible. Its possible to 6man it. But we are strugling to keep our tank up even with 1-2 dread and hes melee dps not maxed out. Do you rly think that with 4-5 dread and hes melee dps even higher we can bull it of ? ( 150 gloom at BG himself. +10 gloom with every add =150+100=250 gloom vs. 120+50+10=180 radiance) Sry i dont think that we can. I would rather go through Durchest faster and try to get Twins easy at farm. At least until everybodey has 2 +30 rad pieces. I would even say that if we dont do bio breaks after every bull we should be able to clear out the BG with in 2-2,5 hours and we could get a few trys at LT even at fridays and then some more trys at sunday. Thats my thoughts. And yeah im not optimist.
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Wow someone who is more pessimistic than Dod? Whodathunkit?

You do make some excellent points.


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im not trying to be besimistic. Im trying to be realist. Just if we have all the easy modes at farm by the time Update hits and radiance is removed we are in pretty good situation to get all the HMs done and consentrate to new raids and instances.

If the Update dont ruin the whole game
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Ah no that was actually a joke bud. I was playing off your statement that you were not optimistic. And Dod has always been our go-to-guy for pessimism.


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Hey! Nobody should be stealing my pessimism! ITS MINE! MY PRECIOUS!

Anyways...

I want to at least see what hardmode on some of these bosses is going to be like. I'd love to get some of them before the patch hit and makes it all "easier". I'd say we try Hardmode this week or next (since this week is kinda messed up) and based on how it goes we make a determination if its worth trying again the week after that, or we just call it and work on making our strat on Durchest and twins better.

The thing to remember, is when BG was originally released, people were running it with 120 radiance...they didn't have the Annuminas or Hele sets.

I just want to see how bad it is in hardmode....most of us haven't see it yet, and I'd like to know what I'm working for with gear. If it completely goes south and we decide to work on our strat and farming....I have no problem with that. But we should at least make a few attempts to get a feel for it as a group.

Just my 2 cents.

--Dod


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I don't think that one try on Durchest HM will hurt, but more would take too much time and effort.
I'd rather like to see LT downed in easy rather than Durchest and Twins in HM before the update.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8thaEJONqg

Good video. Watch the corruption removals and listen how they call out eyes.
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I've seen that vid Rauna, and that's what I was trying to get us to go for when we were doing the LT the other night.

And Gharadir, I think all we were planning on doing per raid night was 1 (maybe 2) tries at Durchest HM. We didn't want to take a lot of time on it either.


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